Maps, Directions, and Place Reviews
Task force up
Hey all, I created the much desired and long-awaited Harness racing task force ( pinging White Arabian Filly and Mateusz K). It's very rough and I'm perfectly cool with any changes, but I've added the parameter to the project banner, will get the category done up, and am making an infobox. I'll also add the instructions for adding the infobox module and so on. Any help or changes, just go for it. We all should probably help tag relevant articles. Montanabw(talk) 18:29, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
Watch your dabs
Just to point out:
There is G1 winning British sprinter named The Tin Man (British horse) as opposed to The Tin Man (horse), and a potential KD derby contender named Mastery (American horse) as opposed to Mastery (horse). I thought there was some "Big Bumper Book of Restricted Names" maintained by the IFHA which stopped this kind of thing. At this rate we'll have Secretariat vs Shergar in a selling plate at Southwell (no insult to Southwell, it's a very friendly little track). Tigerboy1966 15:14, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
The IFHA does have a "Protected Name" program.[1] It is not mandatory. You pay to register the name. I checked, Secretariat & Shergar are protected. Mateusz K (talk) 16:30, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
Add winners to list of races?
Here's an idea I've been kicking around in my own mind - adding the latest winner to the list of races for each country, like this;
I had a quick chat with User:JockeyColours who made a good point about the table maybe getting too wide for phones/tablets. My idea was to have the most recent winner, but it could also work with just the current season winner, with races not yet run left blank. Anyone have any opinions on this? If you think its a terrible idea, feel free to say so! --Bcp67 (talk) 20:41, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
I'm going to try this with the British flat races for 2017. Any feedback gratefully received! --Bcp67 (talk) 21:53, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
2017
A Happy New Year to everyone involved in the horse racing project! May the year ahead continue to be rewarding for you all, and thanks to everyone for another excellent year on the project in 2016. --Bcp67 (talk) 17:47, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Errors page
While editing the Coneygree article I came across a link to it from a page recently created by User:Zafonic which lists errors on horse racing articles. A lot of them are Racing Post reference errors of mine but there is also stuff like categorisation and some more complex things. The page is User:Zafonic/Errors - would it be useful to copy it to a project page, fix the errors and strike them through as done? --Bcp67 (talk) 20:33, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
Talking of "Racing Post reference errors" we are now faced with the situation where practically all of them are broken, as the Racing Post has recently changed the format of its links to individual races. High Chaparral has moved quickly to update the Cite_Racing_Post template that many of us use, but this still means that all existing usages need to be adapted by adding the RP course number and RP course code as additional parameters. e.g. the reference to this year's Queen Mother Champion Chase needs to be changed from 2017 to 2017. I can probably do a bulk change on all pages using a Racing Post section under References (I may get some wrong where the race was held at a different venue in a certain year) but pages such as County Hurdle where the references are distributed through the text, and reproduced via a full URL (without use of Cite_Racing_Post) will be more difficult. Please let me know if you have any suggestions as to how this update can be done as painlessly as possible. I can provide a list of all Racing Post course numbers/codes/names if that helps.(JockeyColours (talk))
I have added details of UK, IRE and top French courses to my (talk) page. Hopefully I will get around to updating any old-style RP references this weekend, but the total revamp of the Racing Post site has unfortunately broken quite a few of my horse-racing utility programs!(JockeyColours (talk) 07:33, 31 March 2017 (UTC))
Thanks also to JockeyColours for top work in updating race results and also fixing reference errors along the way - great effort! --Bcp67 (talk) 09:43, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
New website for French black type races
Spotted this in a RP story today - a new website in English covering Flat & jumps black type races in France. Might be useful. French black type Bcp67 (talk) 20:20, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
Race name changes
I just wanted to check with y'all about what should be done when a race name changes. Minor changes (like changing from a Handicap to a Stakes) seem to happen fairly frequently and I usually handle it in just by updating the verbiage - I figure most of know to look for XYZ Handicap if we can't find XYZ States when trying to do a link. But then there's the major changes like when the Norfolk was renamed FrontRunner. There were a lot of these changes with the closure of Hollywood Park for example but I think we've caught up with all of those. Still, they just announced that the Vanity Stakes will be renamed as the Beholder. So, should we should we change the name of the article now or wait until its next running in June? Do we need to give others a heads up before doing the move? (I assume not since the move command will automatically redirect, but I could be wrong about the etiquette.) Regardless of the timing, I can do an ordinary move but the Vanity already has some redirects so maybe some one with the right permissions should take a look. Thanks for listening to my late night babble! Jlvsclrk (talk) 06:38, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
Need project members' thoughts
I went ahead and did an AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justin Casse. The promotional tone of this article has been driving me nuts for quite some time. I'm not sure what criteria we would even use to assess notability, and I'm not sure if it's more the tone or the topic notability that's bugging me. (But the tone is REALLY bugging me; it's a puff piece). But I've put it up for deletion to see what others think. Montanabw(talk) 07:40, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Man o' War at 100
Is anyone up to giving my changes to Man o' War a copy-edit? I'm still working on the bottom section but I think the background and racing sections are ready for a look-see. Lots of new articles out there to commemorate his 100th, but I've also used the original stories in the New York Times extensively. Would love to get his to a GA. Jlvsclrk (talk) 18:06, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
I put up an AfD
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Not This Time. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and the article is nicely done, but not to put too fine a point on it, this colt retired to stud as a 2-year old after only four races. Bottom line is if a GIII win is enough to confer notability, and my take is that it is not. That said, I think that project members should weigh in here to help refine our criteria. My concern is that stud farms are going to start using WP for free advertising of unproven stallions. But we can discuss further at this AfD. Montanabw(talk) 19:24, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
Copyedit?
Created Girvin. Any eyes welcome to do a copyedit and make any improvements. Montanabw(talk) 09:13, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Stud fees?
Folks, I'm noticing that a various editors are adding current stud fees and stallion rosters to various breeding farm articles. In some cases, they are updating outdated data, and in others, they are creating new lists. My concern is that this is info that becomes dated-- annually -- plus in many ways, it's also free advertising. While I am kind of OK (more or less) with a stallion roster being a part of an article (if properly maintained and including an {{as of}} parameter), even though there are some changes from year to year, the stallions often stay for a reasonable amount of time, and if they do change, they can be moved to a "once stood" column if needed. I'm thinking that stud fees should generally NOT be included -- if they are notable for some reason (i.e. Tapit, American Pharoah) they can be discussed in the article on the individual horse. Thoughts? Montanabw(talk) 16:11, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
Derby contenders
I usually create an article on at least one KD contender before the race but I'm completely flummoxed by the US form this spring so I'm going to do Thunder Snow. Just wanted to check that no-one else had it in sandbox. Tigerboy1966 18:10, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+We did have fun anyway (put up articles on my favs, Irish War Cry is at least a G1, Girvin will need to step up to avoid an AfD...though he does reach GNG because of his connections and the coverage he got because of it...). Tigerboy, did you see that "your" horse got to Kentucky and thought he'd landed in a wild west rodeo? Now, I am not surprised to see that happen at the State Fair or something, but it was unusual for the Derby... ah horses. Montanabw(talk) 23:43, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
RFC on sports notability
An RFC has recently been started regarding a potential change to the notability guidelines for sportspeople. Please join in the conversation. Thank you. Primefac (talk) 23:08, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
First Saturday in May
Woohoo, its time for the 2000 Guineas and Derby! Who's making the mint juleps? Anyone else buying Kentucky Fried Chicken (brought to you by Yum Brands). Are there any drinks specifically associated with the Guineas? Special foods? Jlvsclrk (talk) 06:59, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Category:Thoroughbred racehorses - all inclusive?
I notice that Category:Thoroughbred racehorses has a lot (2000+) of horses in it directly, but many (most?, all?) horses are also in a specific thoroughbred family, for example Fastnet Rock (horse) is in both Category:Thoroughbred family 2-f and Category:Thoroughbred racehorses.
To comply with WP:SUBCAT, should Category:Thoroughbred racehorses be marked as {{All included}}? Mitch Ames (talk) 07:03, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+We have about 10,000 article tagged for the project and well over 5,000 of them will be horses, so no, we don't want {{All included}}. But please, don't remove articles, either. Most horses will fit in multiple categories, but if you move them out of the main cat into what is actually one of the more techie and obscure categories we have, they will be lost. We will, over time, refine categorization, and in fact, we are -- or, to be precise, Tigerboy1966 is doing so all by his lonesome and the rest of us really suck because we aren't helping him! ;-) Montanabw(talk) 22:03, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
Popular pages report
We - Community Tech - are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Horse racing/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Horse racing.
We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
- The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
- The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
- The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).
We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Horse racing, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.
Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Cloud Computing
Anyone working on this? I'll get cracking if not. Jlvsclrk (talk) 22:57, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
NYT Article
Lovely article today in the Times about American Pharoah's foals and the whole process of raising Thoroughbreds. Encouraging to see an in depth article on horse racing in the US papers. There's some useful bits there about the weaning process and developing the horses for training that might be useful in various articles. Jlvsclrk (talk) 20:07, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
RM Epsom Derby
There's a requested move open on Talk:Epsom Derby for anyone who would like to give an opinion. --Bcp67 (talk) 18:37, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
AfDs
I've put up a couple of AfDs. Other project members may want to participate to help establish a project consensus, regardless of outcome. I also chose not to AfD new articles on Gunnevera and Afleet Again, though they are, IMHO, on the marginal side. Montanabw(talk) 01:24, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heart Ashley
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Irish Jasper
WP:NHORSERACING
Two articles I created are up for deletion:
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heart Ashley
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Irish Jasper
Part of the problem, in my mind, is the criterion "Individuals who have won multiple significant Grade/Group 2 or 3 graded stakes races or the equivalent level in their respective nations" (emphasis added) What does significant mean? I looked in the talk page for Wikipedia:WikiProject Horse racing for guidance on the term significant, but couldn't find any. This can be a very high standard or a very low standard - all depends on definition. Another interesting point - jockeys run many races in their careers and horses few. Should more be required of humans that have long careers in the sport, but much less for horses (so the coverage is not disproportionate and in my experience more coverage is dedicated to the horse and not those involved.) In my mind these horses meet GNG anyways, but I think a lot could be cleared up by either defining what significant means, removing the term significant so we are cut and dry on the races, limiting it to multiple Grade II wins without the significant requirement, or some other option. I am not part of the project, so I won't suggest which one, but I do think this should be corrected. Note the concurrent discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#WP:NHORSERACING.RonSigPi (talk) 20:41, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
OK, someone else assess
Someone needs to assess Title Contender for notability. Best I don't touch it until I've settled this drama. Montanabw(talk) 04:52, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
Marginal notability?
Here's another one. In light of working on our notability criteria, what do you think? Notable or not? Gimme Da Lute. Montanabw(talk) 18:23, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
- borderline. maybe yes because of the California Horse of the Year? Had four straight wins but didn't beat any notable horses in them. I hate researching horses who broke down though. Jlvsclrk (talk) 22:10, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
- There's a tendency to emphasize a tragic end, but they are all tragic, not just the big name horses. Kind of like obituaries of people, WP isn't Legacy.com.... sad, but how to handle non-notability with kindness? Montanabw(talk) 18:27, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Another breakdown article-- notable?
Grade I winner, but broke down as a three-year-old. Onlyforyou (horse). Keep or AfD? Thoughts? Montanabw(talk) 07:07, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
2nd AFD
An article for project members to weigh in on, in either direction. Note the 1st AfD in 2008 and comments there too. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thad Ackel (2nd nomination). Montanabw(talk) 04:54, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
Monmouth
FYI, I'll be away next week and will be at Monmouth Park on the 29th and 30th for the Haskell. Don't know yet which horses will be showing up but plan to take plenty of pics - LMK if there are any ones you're particularly interested in. Also, if McCraken should chance to win, I have a sandboxed article just waiting for him to meet notability.
Nomination for deletion of Template:Thoroughbred fatalities
Template:Thoroughbred fatalities has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. (I nominated this to delete) Montanabw(talk) 18:17, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Watchlist please
Issues at Talk:Glossary of North American horse racing#BRD of interest to this project. Appears we do have to fix some citations, possibly need to consult Wayback for earlier versions. Montanabw(talk) 17:24, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Discussion at NSPORTS
Hello all. In an effort to finally resolve the never-ending and annoying GNG v SSG issue, I've proposed a revision of the NSPORTS introduction. You are all invited to take part in the discussion. Thank you. Jack | talk page 06:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
New article
Grand Slam of Thoroughbred racing. Additional edits welcome. Montanabw(talk) 21:18, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
Nomenclature revisited
Im sure this issue has been discussed before but... I am creating an article on Zoffany, the Irish horse who won the Phoenix Stakes in 2010 an gave Frankel supporters the fright of their lives in 2011. There is already an article Zoffany (horse) about the New Jersey-bred horse who raced in England before being repatriated and winning the Hollywood Turf Cup et al. I was wondering about how to deal with the disambiguation. I would be in favour of creating the new aricle at Zoffany (IRE) and moving the existing one to Zoffany (USA). The alternatives would be Zoffany (Irish horse) and Zoffany (American horse). I can't remember what we decided the last time this one came around so let me know what you think. Tigerboy1966 15:50, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
Racecourse or races?
I've restarted work on early British horseracing. Does anyone have a sense of when the "races" stopped being like annual fairs and became more fixed and frequent so that the concept of a "racecourse" made sense. Obviously these days, we understand Ascot Racecourse or Newmarket Racecourse to be locations, but in earlier times they might have been better described as events. Hence, Leith Races rather than Leith Racecourse.
There's a long list of British racecourses which I'd like to shape into something more meaningful, which I think would entail having some sort of cut-off point or threshold above which we can say, "that's a racecourse" and anything else gets listed as "races". Any thoughts? Peaky76 (talk) 15:20, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Glossaries
When editing, I keep needing a glossary of British horse racing terms to point people to. There's an excellent Glossary of North American horse racing but some of the British peculiarities aren't included. What do people think to a.) A combined "global" horse racing glossary (with indication of region where necessary) or b.) A separate British glossary? It would also be useful to have some betting terminology in there, but I see from this discussion the idea of some combined betting/racing glossary was pooh-poohed before. What do people think? Peaky76 (talk) 09:15, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
Proposed deletion of United States Trotting Association
The article United States Trotting Association has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
non-notable subject and fails to provide and references and is not at all integrated or conncected to other parts of the encyclopedia.
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Theprussian (talk) 17:01, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
New article, can't believe it didn't already exist
Hi all, just created Bulle Rock. I can't believe there wasn't already an article about him, maybe there is, somewhere. Anyway, jlvsclrk and Tigerboy1966, you (and any other member of the gang here) probably have more access to older source content than I do, so please improve as you see fit. Montanabw(talk) 05:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
Breeders' Cup 2017
If no one beats me to it, I'll be doing an article for Forever Unbridled tonight. What a performance in the Distaff! (If you're already working on her, please let me know) Jlvsclrk (talk) 23:47, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
One sentence stub
Lucinda Russell. Looks like it needs some work. Winning the Grand National meets notability. Montanabw(talk) 04:55, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Help with Best Gain
Hello all! The article Best Gain hasn't been touched for years. It sounds like the kind of topic that should have some sources written about it, but I wasn't able to turn up anything. Any chance someone more familiar with the world of horse racing might be able to find a ref or two? Bonus points if you de-orphan it. If sources don't exist, we can move to PROD or AfD. Thanks and happy editing! Ajpolino (talk) 20:21, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Source for jockey / trainer / owner bios in North America
If you're editing articles for North American jockeys, trainers or owners, Equibase compiled some really useful information for anyone that had a starter at this year's Breeders' Cup. Includes background info, career overview, milestones:
- Equibase content - 2017 breeders' cup owners, trainers and jockeys
Jlvsclrk (talk) 21:00, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
Eternal Sun
Is now up for GA review. I am a co-nom with Dawnleelynn, though it lists me as the nom because I was the one to list it for GA. He was a Quarter Horse who raced 12 times and later became a show horse. I thought I'd notify the project and see if anybody wants to do a review. Also, happy new year! White Arabian Filly Neigh 23:24, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Nimbus (BR)
This article has an incorrect disambiguator. The article has previously been at both (British horse) and (GB). Either would be correct, but (BR) certainly isn't, it's not a descriptor applied to thoroughbeds bred in Great Britain. I'd like to do an RM for this to move it back to one of its previous names, but does anyone have any particular views on which would be better. There is also a Nimbus (FR) for a French horse and a Nimbus (horse) dab page. --Bcp67 (talk) 22:26, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+For future reference, I have pagemover ability and can fix stuff like this. But ping me on my talkpage to do it, as that way I'll get an email letting me know there's something I have to look at; I've been kind of busy on a real life project (a couple of you know why) and haven't been as actively monitoring my watchlist as in the past. Montanabw(talk) 17:03, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Battle of Midway (horse)
Just come across a newish article about the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile winner which looks like it could do with a bit of work from the US side of the project. --Bcp67 (talk) 22:02, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
La Mesa Park
I created a article on a closed horse racing track in new Mexico. The article is a stub. Feel free to improve it....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 02:53, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Vandal
We have a vandal/ troll on the loose who is targeting US Horse racing articles from various IPs. So far affected have been Todd Pletcher, Bob Baffert, Nick Zito, D. Wayne Lukas & Eight Belles. Keep an eye on your watchlists. Tigerboy1966 03:29, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
Project members alert
Project members may be interested in this discussion: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_February_28#Category:Steeplechase_horse_racing. Montanabw(talk) 17:18, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Race people in red
Posting a list of the human connections to various US racehorses who are redlinked but probably meet the "won a grade one stakes" notability criteria. (Haven't checked them all, and maybe a few already have articles, but we need a redirect?). In case anyone doesn't already have enough to do, here's some articles to create! If they are in the top 20 right now, I mentioned it (lots of good horsemen NOT yet on top 20 for year because it's early...) Other folks, if there are other worthies, feel free to add. Montanabw(talk) 19:55, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
- Jockeys:
- Flavien Prat (currently ranked #11 in USA)
- Luis Saez (currently ranked #2 in USA)
- Ricardo Santana Jr. (currently ranked #9 in USA)
- Tyler Gaffalione (currently ranked #6 in USA)
- Paco Lopez (#12)
- Drayden Van Dyke (#16)
- Manuel Franco (jockey) (#7)
- Dylan Davis (#10)
- Kendrick Carmouche (#16)
- Trevor McCarthy (jockey) (#14)
- Junior Alvarado (#17)
- Trainers:
- Antonio Sano (ranked #10 trainer for 2018 so far, great backstory)
- Mick Ruis (#81 at the moment, but two grade 1 wins with Bold d' Oro, he's gonna need one)
- Brad H. Cox (#4)
- Jorge Navarro (horse trainer) (#5)
- Clifford W. Sise, Jr (Grade 1 win)
- Mike de Kock (See User:Montanabw/Mike de Kock for a start on that one --feel free to edit, I got bored...)
- Carla Gaines (low in the rankings at the moment but four Grade 1 wins, including the 2009 Breeders Cup Sprint)
- Robertino Diodoro (#14)
- Karl Broberg (#8)
- Peter Miller (horse trainer) (#17 and racing's newest bad-acting boy)
- Peter Eurton (#27, but he's been around a while)
- Richard Violette Jr.
- Philip D'Amato (#16)
Iroquois Steeplechase
Hello. Could someone please add a referenced list of all the owners/winners? Please ping me when you've done it. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 20:37, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
Source of the article : Wikipedia
EmoticonEmoticon